I did not mean to imply that women can’t or aren’t brave. But I disagree with your statement that being a man doesn’t include bravery. I believe it should. Being a “real” man or “woman” does include protection of those you love, at least in my opinion. I know my Mom would throw herself into a pit of fire to protect me to this day. But I also know I would do the same for my wife and children.

I agree and stated in the post that both man and woman are equal in the relationship but that does not negate the role we each are supposed to play. I did not set these roles, God did. I am only trying to help others to understand this role in the boundaries that God set in His word. The man should never abuse this role and neither should the wife, even though both do at times.
By direction I meant (and should have been clearer) the spiritual aspect of marriage. Again, God’s deal, not mine. Even though in most marriages the wife is the stronger of the two spiritually, at least in my experience.

As for abused wives I can not speak to that as I have never abused mine. I have known several and counselled several to leave and to prosecute those that abuse them. However dropping parts of the Bible that we don’t like or that are manipulated for someone’s personal benefit would be akin to removing all auto-mobiles because some people choose to drink and drive and hurt others.

As for your definition of submission you are spot on, but we are all called to submit to each other. We are also called to love others more than ourselves. If we practised these disciplines what a different world we would live in.

Hopefully that sheds some light on the issues and helps you to understand where I am coming from. If you still totally disagree, that’s awesome as well, as it is only through open and honest dialogue that we grow in Christ! I am not egotistical enough to believe I have it all figured out or that I am right. These are just posts about things I am trying to wrap my head around.
Thanks For Stopping By,
Shawn

Marriage should be a equal partnership and friendship. It shouldn’t be a heirarchy of “leader” and “follower.” What on earth makes a man better-suited for a leadership role than a woman? (My nine years leading search-and-rescue helicopter crews (during which I brought everyone home safe and sound every time) tells me the answer to this question is: absolutely nothing.) If my husband were to always “set the direction” in our marriage, we would each be deprived of significant opportunities to learn and grow in our abilities to compromise, trust, and respect each other.

And it’s all very well to emphasize the “husbands must love and care for their wives” part of the scripture, but in a society in which 5.3 million women are abused each year (including as much as a quarter of pregnant women in this country), where domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to women, and where almost half of female murder victims were killed by their intimate partner, it might make more sense to just forget about the “Wives: be submissive!” part of the equation until it’s actually safe for them to follow such advice.

And by the way, the briefest etymological examination in the Oxford English Dictionary of the word “submission,” shows that throughout its history, it has ALWAYS meant, “Disposed or inclined to submit; yielding to power or authority; marked by submission or humble and ready obedience.” So say what you will about context, but let’s not pretend the word means (or has meant) anything other than it does (or has).

I think that is where people get confused. I have heard many people state if you don’t trust – you didn’t work on forgiveness enough.

I asked them about the story of David and Saul. I mean what a story to apply to the love and forgiveness. I think most people would struggle with what happened there. One gave the other a good reason NOT to trust in parts of their story!

One of the hardest things I find to do is to forgive someone who hasn’t asked for forgiveness. But I am growing in that area. I try to remember that many times, the person doesn’t see what they do or doesn’t see it as a problem area, and its up to God to reveal it to them, definitely not up to me. I am not God or the Holy Spirit, and you should be glad. The Holy Spirit is the One who brings conviction in the heart of the believer, and if the person is an unbeliever, He doesn’t have the Holy Spirit to convince of sin. So that is one of the hardest things–forgiving without being asked, but it is necessary, especially in our closest relationships (spouse, ciblings, parents), and once again, that doesn’t take away the hurt and pain, but it releases you from being that person’s judge. There may still be some walking on pins and needles for a little while, but God can take that away in time. Now I feel like I’m rambling. I will stop now, especially since I”ve been sick and my head is in a fog.

But then what if they know but still don’t obey? What is the problem? Attitude? The sinful nature?

This goes not just for my children of course. Same is true of grown-ups like me.

I totally agree – If we love, we will obey. Must take faith and humility but love is the greatest virtue we need.